Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah

the empire strikes back…

a question…

Posted by abu ameerah on Wednesday, September 26, 2007

Where do contemporary Neo-Traditionalists find the nerve to attack Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah (mainstream Muslims & Scholars alike) with serious accusations of shirk when one of their most famous figures, Ibn Arabi (the deviant mystic), is clearly guilty of such crimes? How about al Hallaj (kaffir mystic)? Rumi, where he states, “I am God.”? Until, and unless, we have real intellectual honesty — and clarity — amongst Muslim scholars (on a whole host of issues including Aqeedah) … I find that “pacts” of any description will easily be rendered meaningless.




22 Responses to “a question…”

  1. Islam Blog said

    Are the people in the pic Sufis? Looks more like a heavy metal band to me. The nerve of these people!

  2. “I am God.”

    Woah. Disturbing.

    His poems carry some real elements of major shirk.

    But I’m still giving this agreement a chance, as should you, who knows this just might turn out for the better….

  3. MR said

    I guess this answers my email to you. LOL!

  4. you have some nerve calling Al-Sheikh Ibn Arabi deviant. I advice you to refrain from defaming the awliya of Allah….Al-Hallaj’s case is a strange one..but we do not make takfir on him..he was crucified mainly due to the corruption of the land at the time not because of aqeedah matters and Al-Sheikh Qushairi accepts him as well as the erudite Sheikh Ibn Ata ‘Illah, the Imam who debated Ibn Taimiyyah at Al-Azhar and whom the latter had immense respect for. Where did Rumi say “I am God”? and in what sense did he say this? Who are the Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama’ah? If you refer to traditional Orthodox works by people like Ibn hajar Al-Haythami and others you will see that the people of sunnah and the majority refers to the four madhaheeb. Btw do you accept Imam Al-Nawawi? I’m sure you have Darussalam’s translation of his famous Riyadh Al-Saliheen. I suggest you get his book Al-Maqasid. May Allah guide us. Wassalam.

  5. @ ibn anwardi:

    Well, let’s see, since you utilized the term “nerve” … let me take a crack at that one first. Yep, its true. I did refer to: Ibn Arabi, al Hallaj, and Rumi as deviants. Whether you care to accept it … there are a number of scholars – past and present – who have come to this conclusion regarding the trio (I’ll refer to them as the Three Amigos for short).

    So, you seem really-really-really-really-really-really concerned (or at least you make a show of concern) for the reputations of scholars (including the Three Amigos in this case). While on the other hand you find it oh sooooo easy to disrespect Shuyookh like al Munajjid (“…issued by Sheikh Salih Munajjid, one of the most prominent pseudo-salafi personalities today.”) and Albani?! In addition, you have the nerve to attack these great scholars over relatively minor issues — while making excuses for the major sins and deviations of al Hallaj?! La hawla wala quwata’illa billah’. Don’t sound quite fair to me…

    After reading through your questions … that I believe were more argumentative in nature than sincere … I’ll have to take a pass. You know exactly what you meant when you asked them … and I have a pretty good idea as well. Also, I’m pretty sure that by looking through this pathetic little blog you already had a pretty darn good idea of what what my answers would be to those questions … so I see no point or benefit in responding.

    Let me say brother, in all honesty though, that I have come across your seekingilm blog/site before and I have read things that I have found to be offensive or problematic at the very least. However, I purposely refrained from getting into any debates or arguments that I felt would likely prove to be of little benefit for anyone involved. I thought that it would ultimately be better to simply hold back and let bygones be bygones (as the saying goes). However, I don’t know how long we’ll have the luxury of doing so.

    Allow me to explain…

    I can recall that nearly a decade ago, it seemed the case that only the most extreme/fringe elements among the neo-traditionalist camp made passionate arguments defending the likes of the Three Amigos (take your pick as to which one). Allahualim, but today, this is no longer the case. The fringe (if you will) has, unfortunately, managed to creep its way to the so-called center. Meaning that now, you have any Johnny-come-lately with an iPod and baggy jeans telling me (and anyone else for that matter) that “Ya’ll are Extremists Yo…” if we dare expose the deviation(s) of a figure like al Hallaj. I believe that the self proclaimed moderates are, indeed, no longer moderates.

    Finally, today it seems that Muslims in the west have embraced the language of “Unity” & “Pacts” (or something of that sort) almost more than any other minority group. My concerns deal with what the implications of such newfound unity may be–particularly in light of our very real and tangible differences. So, it is in that sense that my comments were made.

    If you have a problem with my opinions or with anything I have written thus far I would urge you never ever ever ever to visit this blog again.

    Thank You and have a nice day!

    Allah Paak Parwardigar-e-Alam!!!

  6. Abul Layth said


    Salamu ‘Alaykum Abu Ameerah. It is interesting that you believe, for some odd reason, that only these “extreme/fringe elements among the neo-traditionalist camp made passionate arguments defending the likes of the Three Amigos”. I am not sure if you know or not, but many established scholars of the past did defend these “three amigos”. It is not for me to defend Rumi or even Hallaj. I would like to particularly respond to the your concentration on Ibn ‘Arabi.

    Ibn ‘Imaad Al-Hanbali called him, “Al-‘Aarif Al-Kabeer” [Shadharat]. Al-Haytami, the Shafi’i Hafith and Faqih, defended him against those who criticized him. He stated,

    “The truth is that Ibn ‘Arabi and his group are the elite of this Ummah. Al-Yaafi’i, Ibn ‘Ataa’illah Al-Iskandari, and others have declared that they considered Ibn ‘Arabi a Wali of Allah . They noted that the language which Sufis use is appropriate among the experts in its usage and that the ‘aarif (knowere of Allah , when he becomes completely absorbed in the oceans of Unity, might make some statements that are liable to be misconstrued as Hulul (indwelling) and union (ittihaad), while iin reality there is neither indwelling nor union.” [Fatawa Hadithiyya]

    Imam As-Suyuti wrote in his Tanbih Al-Ghabi,

    “What is transmitted and attributed to the [Sufi] Shaykhs – may Allah be pleased with them – if it contradicts external knowledge, bears various possibilities, A) First we do not concede its attribution to them until it is established as authentic. B) Second, once authenticity is established, it is pausible that it is has a figurative meaning. If it doesn’t, then one says ‘perhaps it has a figurative meaning for the people of INTERNAL knowledge and the Knowers (’aarifeen) of Allah Almighty. C) Third, this may have come to them in a state of spiritual intoxication and distraction, and the lawfully spiritual intoxicant is not taken to task for he is not held responsible in such a state. Holding a negative view about them after all these points is a sign of deprivation of success. We seek Allah ’s refuge.”

    Why couldn’t you, instead of treading a dangerous path of criticism, take the path of waqf – like that of Shaykhul-Islaam An-Nawawi, who said when asked about Ibn ‘Arabi’s case:

    “A group of scholars professed suspension (waqf – i.e. they chose to stop at his affair) and benefit of good opinion (At-Taslim)…their Imam being Shaykhul-Islam An-Nawawi who replied, when asked about Ibn ‘Arabi, “Those are a people who have passes away. Theirs is that which they earned, and yours is that which you earn. And you will not be asked of what they used to do.” [2:134] The Knower, [Imam Ahmad] Az-Zarruq reported from his Shaykh An-Nuri the words, “They differed about him from the verdict of absolute disbelief (al-kufr) to that of spiritual primacy (Qutbaaniyyah), and giving the benefit of good opinion is therefore an obligation (At-Taslim Waajib).” [Shadharat Adh-Dhahab of Ibn ‘Imaad Al-Hanbali]

    The men we have named are hardly “extreme” or even a “fringe” group. They are established scholars, well respected in their sciences. So if you find someone coming to their defense, then brother, know – may Allah bless you with good – that the scholars of the past also came to their defense.

    Jazaakum Allahu Khairan Bro,

    Abul Layth

  7. Abul Layth said

    The quote of An-Nawawi is actually from the Statement of Manaawi that is found in shadharat adh-dhahab. Shukran bro.

  8. Assalamu’alaikum,
    You seriously have issues with ilm…take some time to do quiet muhassabah and go on a journey to seek true ilm insha’Allah…Now you didn’t just refer al-hallaj as deviant but rather a kafir!…ibn arabi was the one whom you labelled deviant..if you had even an ounce of ilm in the sciences of Islam you would not make such a daft statement…Ibn Arabi r.a. is a well respected ‘alim and sheikh in the tradition of ahl sunnah wal jama’ah and his famous ahkamul qur’an is referred to as an important text in ulum al-qur’an. Al-Hallaj remains a controversial issue, but we the majority of ahl sunnah wal jama’ah do not make takfir on him and as I have mentioned to you he is the sheikh of the sheikh of Al-Qushairi who accepts him..i think such personalities are more familiar with Al-Hallaj’s case than you or I…You claim to have read seekingilm.com(which isn’t my blog but I am affiliated to it)…i don’t think you have actually read the articles critically….proof of this is seen in your accusation that I disrespected Salih Munajjid in my article..how and where did I disrespect him? Did I not even call him a sheikh? You claimed that you found problems with the articles on seekingilm…if that is so why do you not participate in the comment sections provided for you and any other person on earth? provide your points of disagreements backed by solid evidences insha’Allah..if you are right we are not too thick headed as to brush you off..if you really wanna speak of deviation..let’s…what did Ibn Uthaimeen say about Allah’s istiwa? what word did he use in addition to ‘uluw? Was it not istiqrar? which member of the salaf whom the salafis praise so immensely ever used such a word to describe Allah’s istiwa? how can such an abomination attributed to Allah? The issue is discussed in detail here [REMOVED: Don’t post links please. Other blogs/bloggers may have similar policies] …please do contribute…

    We the people of ahl sunnah wal jama’ah have better things to do than to go around loosely calling people kuffar, mushrikeen, grave worshippers etc.

    Eid Mubarak

  9. Assalamu’alaikum,
    Just btw the I way..i am concerned with the scholars of haq of ahl sunnah wal jama’ah, not just any scholar…jzk

  10. Mars Bars said

    Ibn Anwardi,
    You are so deluded that you’ve become a “trannie” of the sects. Being pseudo salafi and then getting a physical and spiritual modification to some faggotry sufi crap. Have fun with your man made spiritual appendages.

  11. Assalamu’alaikum,
    Mars Bars..are you Muslim? if you are…have you ever heard of the hadith “Al-Dinul Nasihah”?

  12. MR said

    LOL Abu Ameerah you are by far the funniest super religious salafi blogger ever. You change the links to the names to sites you like.

    That’s awesome!!!! I should start doing that. Hahah

    @ RYDER:

    –I think I have just come to the realization that I hate shameless self promoters. Know any? ; )

    If you have a problem with anything you come across anywhere on this crappy excuse for a blog … I humbly request that you never visit again. On a side note, sometimes I wish neo-traditionalists would simply learn to keep their fantastically pious pie-holes shut.

  13. The_Advocate said

    Hey Ibn Anwardi your replies make no sense:

    1. You start of by giving a salaam: “Assalamu’alaikum”,

    2. Then you question a believer if he is even a believer: “Mars Bars..are you Muslim?” Thereby one could accuse you of doing takfeer or Akhee/ Ukthee Mars Bars yet you just did salaam! So do you generally go round giving salaam to those you are kuffar?

    3. Lastly you crown your stupidity by typing: “if you are…have you ever heard of the hadith “Al-Dinul Nasihah”?” So practicing what you preach is it nasihah to question a believer as if he is kaffir now?

    Seriously you have issues.

  14. Assalamu’alaikum,

    The_Advocate..I will ask you the same question..are you Muslim? The salam is not specifically for you..but is generally for the blog and whoever that visits it…anyway if you are a Muslim..I shall pose the same question..ever heard of the hadith “Al-Dinul Nasihah” ? If you have…please do some muhasabbah

  15. in this day and age, IMO, there is only room for two kinds of muslims: extremists and reformists. The reformists will prevail, insha’allah.

    In this day and age, there are a number of jackasses in the world (particularly in the west) who feel that they should have an say about who or what it means to be a Muslim. I think that the west should confront its own extremists before it worries about those in the Muslim world.

  16. Islam Blog said

    That link to the video in comment number 14 is un(flipping)believable.

    Is that what Tasawwuf is about?

    Oh Allah, make the Sunnah of your beloved Messenger (Sallallaho Alaihi wasallam) our Refuge!

    Abu Ameerah, where do you come up with this stuff? [:)]

  17. lnahrawi said

    When i clicked comment, i just wanted to say, was that pic real or photoshopped?
    Now that i’ve read the debate goin on here, im just like, Woah, Subahanallah.
    Other than that, abu ameerah, ur blog is always a pleasure to read.
    May Allah guide all of us and keep us on the straight path. Ameen!
    Pls also give my salaams to umm ameerah.

  18. Waqar said

    if anyone wants proof about what shirk really is then contact me on: waqar_118_118@hotmail.co.uk. as you know Jalaluddin rumi was a great poet and a sufi scholar he never commited shirk and i can give you proof of that too. if you think sufi is a misleading sect or whatever you want to call it just add me on my msn i will give you all the proof from quran and sunnah inshallah azawajal.

  19. Shiekh said

    Salaam Wa Rehmat Allah,
    it is a proven fact that sufia asaria is a deviant group and they are involved in shirk, if anyone want to discuss how they are against Quran and Sunnah please email me shiekh.yalizai@gmail.com
    May Allah show us haq as haq and give us power to accept it, May Allah show us batil as batil and give us power to refrain from it…Ameen

  20. Shiekh said

    The Sufi doctrine of all religions being acceptable before Allah is derived from the Mystical beliefs of other religions, and not Islam, for Allah says:
    “Truly, the religion in the Sight of Allah is Islam…” [2: 19].

    Ibn Arabi leaves no doubt as to his conviction in the unity of all religions: “Beware of restricting yourself to one particular religion and disbelieving in everything else, so that great good would be missed by you, indeed you would miss attainment of knowledge of the affair in the form he is following. Rather be ready to accept all forms of belief. This is because Allah is higher and greater than to be comprehended by one belief to the exclusion of others. Rather all are correct, and everyone who is correct receives award, and everyone who is rewarded is fortunate, and everyone who is fortunate is one with Whom He is pleased.”
    Ibn Arabi, al-Fusoos, p.191

  21. Palwaan said

    May Allah ta’ala save us from the fitnah of Sufis and may they be confine to caves away from pure deen.

  22. Seeker said

    –Strange and mind-boggling how some criticize the Sufis and the Aulias of Allah Azza wa-Jal, without having a clue of the realities behind the utterances of these Great personalities.

    –people who call the Mutasawwifs “fitnah” are unaware, apparently, that they them-selves are the biggest fitnahs against their own selves, and causing themselves to fall short of the REAL and the REALITY expressed/explained by the great Aulia Kiraams .

    –So, it is humbly requested that personalities who think they know it all, start believing that they might NOT, and what’s written in the books of the Sufis/ahlullahs could certainly have numerous meanings and sirr/asrars/secrets hidden behind them.

    –waAllahu yahdee man yashao ila siratim-mustaqeem..

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: